User talk:Steve and Jock
Jock has been diabetic since August 2004, and has seen most of the worst that feline diabetes can throw at a cat, and survived. Here's his story. He and I are proud to bring you an organized resource for feline and canine diabetes info. Your administrators for the petdiabetes wiki are User:Steve and Jock, Kathy, and User:Venita. You can leave messages for me on this page and I'll see them quickly. Older conversations are here: User talk:Steve and Jock/Oldtalk1 Pets wiki Hi i was wondering if you would like to contribute to my wikicity with some pet diabetes articles. pets wikicity http://pets.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page My wiki is a little messy but it is all about pets. Thanks Steve oh Steve, I am so happy that my baby is the kitty of the month....thanks for making my day, I am such a proud mom! Julie and Smokey Formatting Thanks for adding Max's picture. I have added it to the thumbnail section of his case study. I wanted to put his picture on the right side of that section and all the words on the left side of that section (that is, 2 columns), but I haven't got a clue how to do that. Could you help out? Thanks. Venita 17:14, 9 Dec 2005 (UTC) :Thanks Steve for the formatting. I did check the HTML "trick" and now I know how to do it. Thanks for helping and for teaching. Venita 17:13, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC) ::My pleasure, Venita! In reality, I haven't known this trick very long myself, I looked it up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Picture_tutorial But always happy to pass it on! Steve and Jock 21:53, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC) :::That's a really cool article. Venita 00:21, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC) ::::Steve. I know you put a link to that picture article somewhere here on our wiki, but now I can't find it. Can you direct me? Venita 11:43, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC) :::::Yes, the article is in the link on the left side of the page. --steve Case template Now that you have given me the kudos for putting the case template into Max's case, I must admit that I fudged. I went into the edit pages of a couple that you had done and copied out what I needed. The problem now is that I have promised someone else that I would put that very professional looking template and picture into her page. I know how to upload the picture, but I don't want to go through all that cut and paste on the template info again. Could you maybe put instructions on the template's discussion page about how one goes about using it? That is, how to start to install it on the page and what to put into the " }" fields to make the whole thing work? Or is that discussion somewhere else and I just haven't found it yet? Venita 00:17, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC) :Actually, Venita, the "fudging" was exactly what I thought you had done! That's really the second-easiest way to do it right now, I'm afraid. But you're right, the template's discussion page is the correct place to put instructions. I just haven't done it yet. (sorry! Bad Steve) The easiest way is to use the form for Case Studies at http://petabit.com/pdw/case.php , and copy the template from the resulting page directly into the Case: page. :When you fill out that form and hit "Submit", it shows you the resulting template, ready-filled. (It also mails it to me) But you can copy it with your mouse and create a page called Case:Whoever and paste it in there, at the top of the page, and it will work. Any errors or weirdness, you or I can fix pretty easily. :--Steve and Jock 01:08, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC) ::Sorry I wasn't clear. This was a preexisting case study (Alley Cat), and I wanted to put in that green box with thumbnail info and a picture. So I fudged again. I was talking about the template for that box at Template:Case. I didn't know whether I could type something easy in AlleyCat's edit page and get that template to appear with fields that I could fill out. Probably not important to develop instructions just for that template because hopefully most new cases will come in through the fill-in form; and "upgrades" to existing cases can be cut and pasted. Venita 11:17, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC) :::Looks like you did everything right. Copy/paste is the way I designed it to work. It might be worth looking through the case and Martha's profile to see if any more categories can be added -- I thought I saw a couple missing.... --Steve and Jock 12:08, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC) Missing Link We hope 17:51, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC) Steve, The third external link I had there would show up fine in the edit panel for me. It would NOT show up in either preview or save mode. Played with it for a bit and at that point only, everything enclosed in brackets """ would disappear when previewing or saving. The other 2 externals and any internals were fine--only that last external. No idea what the trouble is. Kathy : Did you try adding a label (some text) for the link, after the link url? --Steve and Jock 17:55, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC) Need new main page cat Time to put a new cat picture on the main page. I tried with Smokey, but I couldn't get it to look right. If you make that change. I will announce the new January cat on FDMB.Venita 15:54, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC) :Ok done. Background color changed to match Smokey's eyes instead of Maxwell's. Steve and Jock 17:34, 27 Dec 2005 (UTC) Thanks Steve Thank you so much for compiling all the pancreatitis information in an easy to read and accessible format. I really appreciated it. I'm taking Nem in to the vet to get some of the tests Dr. Lisa recommended in one of Chet's posts yesterday (of course, this is dependant on cost). I'm also going to talk to them about starting B-12 injections and see if they think Nem needs sub-q fluids. Thanks for always being there for me when I needed advice.--Sheree and Nemesis 22:06, 28 Dec 2005 (UTC) Nonworking Link There's a nonworking link in the template in Bailey's case study. I don't know what it was supposed to link to so I can't fix it. Venita 16:37, 10 Jan 2006 (UTC) :Can't find any broken links there, Venita! There's only two I can see, one to his picture (which works) and one to his FDMB profile (which works, and I renamed it.) What am I missing? ::Humm. When I hit the link to his picture page, I get an FDMB screen with the message "Linking to files in this forum is not allowed from outside the forum." And I can't find his picture on the forum to copy and upload it into the wiki or I would do that. Venita 11:44, 11 Jan 2006 (UTC) New Case Study Categories?? In the final paragraph of this article, Dr. H maintains that her remission protocol is not as "curative" for female cats as for male cats. Should we have categories to sort out the genders of the case study animals (we might need to also have a category for gender unknown). I also see we have a category for canine cases. Should there be one for feline cases? I can do this work, if you think it is useful info. Something fairly mindless I can contribute. Venita 01:00, 13 Jan 2006 (UTC) :Another potential category is feral cats. Had a question on the Board this morning about whether it might be possible to hometest them. In the past, others on the Board have asked about whether it was possible to even treat them. I know we have Seasaidh in that category here. Venita 11:29, 13 Jan 2006 (UTC) ::All three sound good to me, Venita! I'm on vacation now in Toronto and not sure how much I'll be doing on the wiki this week, so feel free to add the four categories "Male cases", "Female cases", "Feral cases", and "Feline cases". No need for "Male Feline", etc, since you can always just use "Male" and "Feline". --Steve and Jock 18:21, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC) :::All finished now. Hope you are enjoying/enjoyed your your repat vacation. Venita 10:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC) Case Study Form Dates Steve. The case study form only takes dates through 2005. You might want to add 2006 (and to make your life easier going forward maybe years beyond that).I posted today on FDMB for more case studies, so you may get a wave again. Sorry.Venita 14:31, 20 January 2006 (UTC) Blocked IPs (question moved from Wikicities:Talk:MediaWiki 1.5) Just a question -- when I block someone's IP, does that block them from editing only, or from reading too? --Steve and Jock :It only restricts them from actually editing pages. 24.224.153.40 20:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC) February Pet of the Month Time again for another main page pet. Do you have one you would like to put there? Venita 21:57, 31 January 2006 (UTC) :I'm thinking of Tilly or Maja. How about you? --steve ::Maja's case study doesn't have a picture (there is one on FDMB if it's OK with Nina that we take it from there). Otherwise, it would have to be Tilly. Venita 08:50, 2 February 2006 (UTC) :::I'd also love to include Kathy's drooler, but she hasn't put up a case study yet! Hey Kathy, you're next in line when you do! :::Tilly, then because Kirsten has been really really helpful lately and just brought in a new Levemir case. I'd love to show some appreciation there. --Steve Tabby's picture Alice has approved putting Tabby's picture in his case study. For some techno-babble reason, I can't get it downloaded out of her sig line on the FDMB as a jpg file. Could you try? Here's a link to a post with her pictures. Tabby's the one on the left. Venita 18:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC) :Done. If she wants to use a larger photo, she can. Steve ::Thank you. I'll let her know. Venita 09:21, 11 February 2006 (UTC) Online Real Player We hope 05:14, 21 February 2006 (UTC) Hi Steve, Have been working with embedding Real Player in a web page and was wondering if this might be something which we could do here for videos of testing, injecting, etc. Embedding the player onsite routes it through the browser (my IE had no problem with the video clips, instead of Real Player). This would mean those without it would be able to view the clips on the page. The only "down" side to embedding the player is that you need a set of controls for each clip, but can "route" them all through one screen on the page. (Those I'm helping out have a total of 19 videos, so we'll probably split it into 3 screens with 6 clips (and the odd 7th one added to one set.) Unsure whether this would be permitted by wiki and also not sure how much "straight" html, etc., can be used on wiki pages and be properly interpreted. I think it would be good here, if it's allowed; know it brought the video page mentioned above to life, instead of all those clickable urls. Kathy :I don't know for sure, Kathy, but I suspect that the Wikicities people will refuse, both for copyright reasons and bandwidth concerns. They have to pay for all this bandwidth with just the ads on the side. I'll ask though. --Steve New Month, New Pet Happy March 1. Time for a new front page pet. Venita 06:31, 1 March 2006 (UTC) :Right you are, Venita! Happy doggie days of March! Thinking Out Loud We hope 21:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC) Whether we should not consider a set of "failed" categories for cases, regarding insulins. Seeing Chris as Pet of the Month made this one pop into my head, and knowing something about his history with insulins. He is somewhat of a copy of Lucky regarding NPH insulin--each using different species but in many ways the same bad effects with nicely controlled bg's. Know that Natalie has tried just about all of them, including a recent stab at Lantus which failed. I'd posted on CDMB something regarding Lucky and how he did well on only pork lente, describing how things were during his short try of pork NPH--how he was intolerant of the suspension & preservatives in it. Natalie then made a connection between Chris' problems and his GE NPH. If you decide to go with a "failures" category, I'd hope the information could be used as a tool to allow someone to read about what happened with the pet & the insulin and NOT as a means to discourage someone from trying something else. Because everyone's different, what works for one may not for another, but in getting some type of information as to reactions, etc., it may help someone put some pieces together and thus solve the problem. We noticed the difference in Lucky as a whole when we had to switch from pork lente to pork NPH, and he came back to being himself after going back on pork lente. This is the only way they can "talk" to us--and "failures" might make us better listeners. Kathy :Cool idea -- just wondering how to make it more general without multiplying the number of classes too much... -steve Simple & Complex Carbs We hope 00:09, 6 March 2006 (UTC) Hi Steve, Re: the Low-Carb page, simple & complex carbs affect everyone with diabetes. http://www.felinediabetes.com/dummies.htm Some foods send blood sugar up very quickly, others are slower. None will last as long as the insulin does. Picky eaters can be a big problem -- just remember that nutrition is the first criterion, so feed him whatever healthy food he'll accept. If the cat is at his best weight, it is better to adjust insulin than food. Remember that his food needs will reduce as the diabetes comes under better control. When he regulates, he might even need a small insulin reduction after a while. The nature of food affects the quantity and timing. Consistent amounts of consistent formulas provides the best diabetes control. In all foods, it is the carbohydrates and simple sugars that are converted to glucose. Simple sugars hit the bloodstream fast, the complex carbohydrates take longer because they have to be converted first. If you change your cat's diet drastically, you should do at least a mini-curve to determine his response to the new food so you can adjust his insulin to cover it if necessary. This is why, when there's a hypo, you need to give something more than sugar when they are able to take it; the sugar, being a simple carb, goes to work quickly and fades quickly, where the more complex carbs work slowly and fade slowly. A bit like comparing fast-acting insulin to either intermediate or slow-acting insulin. Going for the syrup is right, but syrup alone won't "hold up" the bg's for an extended period of time--there has to be some longer-acting carbs there to keep it up. This is why they advise people to first go for the juice or other sugar-containing drink (simple carb) and then shortly after take a sandwich--to get the bread (complex carb) into them to ward off any more hypos. Kathy :Ok, Kathy -- I am happy to admit I was wrong about cats, but let's move that part to a section of the page, not above the table of contents, ok? The page is about "Low-carb diet", not "how to handle hypo". It's just not intro material to the topic in my opinion. Can you find or make a place on the article on "Types of carbohydrates" so it isn't in the top section anymore? :Thanks, :Steve More IPs For Block Log We hope 19:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC) (diff) (hist) . . Diabetes in Pets:About; 22:50 . . 83.38.237.182 (Talk) m Diabetes in Pets:About; 02:12 . . Angela (Talk) (Reverted edit of 83.38.237.182, changed back to last version by Steve and Jock) (diff) (hist) . . Talk:Main Page; 14:07 . . 71.141.110.184 (Talk) (Test Page) (diff) (hist) . . Talk:Main Page; 18:42 . . We hope (Talk) (reverting Main page to previous version by Steve and Jock) Whois: 83.38.237.182 Final results obtained from whois.ripe.net. inetnum: 83.37.0.0 - 83.39.255.255 netname: RIMA descr: TELEFONICA DE ESPANA descr: Provider Local Registry country: ES admin-c: ATDE1-RIPE tech-c: TTDE1-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: MAINT-TdE mnt-lower: MAINT-TdE mnt-routes: MAINT-TdE source: RIPE # Filtered role: Administradores Telefonica de Espana address: Emilio Vargas, 4 address: 28043-MADRID address: SPAIN org: ORG-TDE1-RIPE admin-c: AFG2-RIPE admin-c: FCP7-RIPE tech-c: FCP7-RIPE nic-hdl: ATdE1-RIPE mnt-by: MAINT-TdE abuse-mailbox: nemesys@telefonica.es source: RIPE # Filtered role: Tecnicos Telefonica de Espana address: Emilio Vargas, 4 address: 28043-MADRID address: SPAIN org: ORG-TDE1-RIPE admin-c: AFG2-RIPE admin-c: FCP7-RIPE tech-c: FCP7-RIPE nic-hdl: TTdE1-RIPE mnt-by: MAINT-TdE abuse-mailbox: nemesys@telefonica.es source: RIPE # Filtered % Information related to '83.38.0.0/16AS3352' route: 83.38.0.0/16 descr: RIMA (Red IP Multi Acceso) origin: AS3352 mnt-by: MAINT-TdE source: RIPE # Filtered Whois: 71.141.110.184 Final results obtained from whois.arin.net. Results: SBC Internet Services SBCIS-SIS80 (NET-71-128-0-0-1) 71.128.0.0 - 71.159.255.255 PPPoX Pool Rback36.SNFCCA SBC07114109600019051006155321 (NET-71-141-96-0-1) 71.141.96.0 - 71.141.127.255 Kathy :Hi Kathy! :The one from the FDMB who is just adding opinions to Josh's page and testing on the Main Talk page hasn't actually done any vandalism. Not much anyway. I can easily find out who they are and maybe they want to actually start contributing soon. Not everyone on the FDMB agrees on everything, or is polite. Let's give them a chance to contribute valuable knowledge. --Steve and Jock 19:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC) Morgan's History Hi Steve, I added Morgan's history as I have it so far. I love Jock, he is way cute! I love the hairless cats, I had a hairless guinea pig who sadly just passed a few months ago. Hopefully Morgan's case will help someone. Thanks - DOnna Morgan's History Hi Steve, I added Morgan's history as I have it so far. I love Jock, he is way cute! I love the hairless cats, I had a hairless guinea pig who sadly just passed a few months ago. Hopefully Morgan's case will help someone. Thanks - Donna GI Disorders Category--Help! We hope 21:41, 31 March 2006 (UTC) OK--The Category works--it lists the pages, etc. and I've done 2 saves of the GI Disorders short intro for the Category. However, when clicking the category attached to any of the articles, wiki shows it as a red, unfilled link and takes me back to the GI Disorders short intro as if it's never been saved. Where did I blow it? Kathy Just tried it again and everything seems to have gone into its rightful place. :Typical behavior when you reference a category and then create it, instead of the other way round. It fixes itself eventually. -steve Repaired Pastes We hope 01:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC) Sorry--thought one got at least 1 paragraph in Fair Use. They were short and this is why I didn't realize they would be a problem. I've gone back and taken care of everything I realized I'd taken short pastes from, including the Merrick Cat Food information from yesterday. One gets quite used to doing URL and a short article snippet on message boards. Kathy :No problem -- Fair use gives you a paragraph or two if you quote it and give the source, but not if you appear to use it as your own text. I should have mentioned that -- if you want to quote the other site, just make it explicit and link to the source. See how I did it for Wikipedia in Ketoacidosis. --Steve Images Question We hope 16:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC) With everything else on the Caninsulin page finding another, was able to see (thought I recognized them!) that the Caninsulin feline and canine TAPS graphics are sourced directly from the Caninsulin UK website. Not sure if this is a problem re: copyright, as I know all Intervet websites are copyrighted. If this could mean trouble, am suggesting that they go from direct to indirect link where they don't load unless the link is clicked. Would change this myself if I knew they were a copyright problem. Kathy : Short answer -- it's ok unless they complain. Long answer: : Hello all -- copyright question.... : what's wikia's policy on linking directly to external images (without importing them?). : Can this be done even if they're copyright? : (Since they're not actually being copied) : Hm. I believe it is discouraged but allowed... let me check on that. : http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Images#Externally_hosted_images : Yeah, it's allowed, as we're not actually copying it, but discouraged, as it steals bandwidth from other sites. : Ok, thanks. : np. : I don't think bandwidth will be an issue in this case :) : --Steve and Jock 18:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC) Re: Linked Images We hope 18:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC) Thanks for the clarification--I'd refrained from doing it because I thought it may lead to problems. Now I will be linking some other TAPS to the insulin page--just did not want a problem with Lilly (whose TAPS I'd wanted to link here) in doing so. Can also change things re: the link for the Caninsulin syringe; since it came from an online pet pharmacy, I was cautious. Kathy Favicon We hope 18:39, 13 April 2006 (UTC) I can't see it at all and I don't know why. Did everything Chami advises re: IE. I can see ours for John's site in both address and Favorites with no problem. Just wondering if you're able to get the icon in the address and Favorites. Verified it with the Chami verifier and it says it's there, but I can't see it. Kathy :Not surprising, your browser has cached the old one. Mine had too, I had to be pretty persuasive to see it. I don't know what steps work best but if you keep in mind that it's a caching issue, you'll get it eventually. --steve Rx Status Category For Insulins? We hope 17:00, 16 April 2006 (UTC) Would like to start an Rx Status Category for the insulins. The laws are quite different, depending on what country you're in. US says Rx for analog insulins only--Canada says no Rx for any insulin, no matter what it is, UK classes all insulin as POM (Prescription Only Medication), as does most if not all of the EU. Knowing what's available and knowing the Rx Status of it could be helpful. Kathy :I'd be happy to include this information for each country (state?) but I don't see how the category deals with it. If an insulin is in "Rx Status", what does that mean in my country? Rx & Insulin We hope 18:21, 16 April 2006 (UTC) Steve, The laws are quite different, most particularly in North America. We have the US requiring Rx on analog and veterinary insulins only, with the rest OTC. Canada has had a law of long-standing because of Banting & Best and the discovery of it in Canada, that no insulin, no matter what it's made of, needs to be dispensed with prescription. UK has all insulins classed as POM--Prescription Only Medications and most if not all of EU does too. What I hope to do after catagorizing them is to break write a header which will somehow break it down. Kathy :I love the idea in general but I don't see how the category will help. I keep thinking of adding a template for prescription status, or adding to the existing Template:Insulin I am hoping you have a plan and I just don't see it. --steve Broken Link Steve, the link to "All Case Studies" on the main page doesn't work and I'm cluless what the problem is. Venita 07:58, 20 April 2006 (UTC) Need Help Making PZI Vet Page Quit & Redirect We hope 05:43, 21 April 2006 (UTC) Wanted to separate all PZIs. Thought I blew it when I hit PZI Vet and got a redirect. Thought I'd forgotten to save the page where the PZIVet information was transferred from the PZI one. Soo--started another. This one at PZI Vet will not quit. It keeps coming up when you hit the link from Main Page. Putting the page into edit shows only the redirect. Know it doesn't redirect to PZIVet because you can see where code corrupted and messed up listing of categories Porcine & Rx Status. When I view it in both preview and right after a save attempt, it indicates that it's redirecting. Grabbing it from link on Main, shows "phantom" page which is technically no longer there. Kathy :Maybe your browser cache? I can't see any problems with PZI or PZIVet or PZI Vet. --steve We hope 14:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC) Thanks! When I killed the browser it stopped doing that. Apparently IE gets a sort of "hangover" when I'm doing a lot at one time like Fireworks, web page editing and wiki editing. At the time, it was the page that wouldn't quit! Kathy Signed Out Without Signing Out We hope 20:44, 26 April 2006 (UTC) This quirk seems to be confined to Categories and Recent Changes. Infection is a category and I found I was signed out there; going to Main Page, it says I'm signed in. Going to Recent Changes says I'm signed out, but a return to Main Page says I'm signed in. Signed in at Recent Changes with no problem. Never had this happen before with either of these pages. It's not ALWAYS someone forgot! OK--Returned to Categories and though I signed in before, was logged out and had to log in again. Whatever the problem is, we'll need to watch if we are logged in for all areas of the wiki or we may end up turning ourselves in as spammers! We hope 00:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC) So far, so good with staying logged in. Will do live chat if it happens again. Just was quite a surprise when I was OK in one place and not another. Kathy Room For? We hope 19:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC) Do we have room for something like a "What's New" spot (upper right corner?) on the Home Page where we could list links to newly updated articles of interest, etc.? Know we have a newest pages link, but there's nothing to indicate when information's been added to existing pages. People not familar with wiki may not realize they need to look at the Recent Changes pages to see if information has been added or updated. If they've bookmarked us, it's probably been the Home Page, not any of the articles pages, which can change a lot. We've added quite a bit to things like pancreatitis and so forth. Just a thought, Kathy :Consider the answers provided on Talk:Community Portal.... -steve We hope 04:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC) Thanks!! Now a reminder-- May POM needed soon! Kathy April cat of the month Nemesis and I would like to thank you for having her as the pet of the month for April. I'm guessing because her head got so swelled she forgot to fight the insulin and she is close to actually being regulated. I couldn't be happier. Thanks for creating this and making it available to everyone. It is a godsend. --Sheree and Nemesis 05:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC) Sorry About Your Eyes/What About An Admin? We hope 21:22, 3 May 2006 (UTC) What then about admins? Is Venita available to do this, since I'm not an admin. Have been helping the human diabetes site with the facelift--MANY pages to be re-done, along with other related and non-related projects. What, if anything, do you need/want done while you're gone? POM is covered, so that's done. Just let the two ladies in on how this is going to be handled while you rest your eyes, OK? Feel Better FAST!! Kathy :Ok, Kathy and Venita, you are now both admins. Any new abilities will be obvious from the additional tabs and links you see on the pages, including the recent changes page. Don't be too quick to use "block" or "protect", please -- wikia policy is not to preemptively protect pages, and not to block users for ill-advised edits. --Steve We hope 15:32, 4 May 2006 (UTC) We've been fortunate re: spammers lately, so unless the porn and gambling ones who aren't already "out" on a wiki-wide level stop by, don't think there will need to be any blocks, etc. Tell Jock he can contribute to the "cause" by being able to leave insulin, thus saving your eyes from those TINY doses. Tell him to "fast track" his beta cells, please! Hope you'll be back on board again soon! Kathy Get well soon Hi Steve, sorry to hear you're not well. Get well soon, and a pat to Jock! -- sannse (talk) 14:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC) :Thanks, Lisa! Hope to be around once in a while to see these nice messages! Category Thoughts We hope 16:04, 17 May 2006 (UTC) What would you think about starting two categories--one of Concurrent Diseases/Conditions for cats, the other for dogs? We have most, if not all of them (Except hyperthyroidism and I think that should be started by a "feline person", since it's most common to cats, with dogs most commonly in the hypothyroidism category) on wiki right now. Some are common to both and would be entered in both feline & canine concurent categories, while others are more species-specific. It would allow someone to be aware of the other diseases which might be contributing factors to their struggles with controlling diabetes. Prime examples are Cushing's and hypothyroidism: bringing them into line means you can't truly get control of the diabetes until you do. Pancreatic Insufficiency would be another, because if only one is dealt with, such as just the diabetes, the animal is still unable to process food properly and this does not help the "total" picture re: the animal's health. Kathy Re: L, UL. et. al--"Batting Cleanup" We hope 20:15, 3 June 2006 (UTC) Hi Steve, I will be glad to expand the differences in activity profiles according to type and species. This is something everyone appears to either have faced or are facing, no matter where they are. Former Monotard and Ultratard users in the UK have two added options--for CP Pharma or Insuvet's Bovine Lente or Bovine Protamine Zinc. In some Euro countries, CP has a presence which means the insulin is available there without the user needing to do his/her own importing. Schering-Plough's Insuvet insulins are UK only. Those in the UK using any of the Novo pork insulins (Pork Actrapid, Pork Insulatard or Pork Mixtard) will be losing it in 2007--the "good" news for them is that the CP Pharma insulins are exactly the same, composition-wise. Re: compatibility--we can also get into differences in U strength and what that means, switching species and what that means to cats and what it means to dogs. The greater the U strength, the slower the insulin works. You don't hear a lot about it because it is Rx and special order, but there is U500 insulin. It's for people who are extremely insulin-resistant and must take huge doses of U100 insulin to manage themselves (available in R/neutral only). In contrast, U40 R/neutral is only slightly slower than the rapid-acting analogs; faster than U100 R/neutral. Generally, the closer the amino acid match to the diabetic's native insulin, the faster it starts working and is out of the system. This was one of the problems when some people switched to GE insulin--it began working faster (hypos) and does not last as long as either pork or beef (longest for humans). If you could still obtain it, bovine UL has a TAP in people which makes Lantus blush--this is because of the 3 amino acid difference in the insulins. So if you used the example of a dog switching from the old Iletin II Lente U100 pork) to Humulin L or Monotard (both GE), the GE Lente would start working slower and last longer. Going from the old Iletin II Lente to Caninsulin or Vetsulin meant the U40 Caninsulin/Vetsulin starting to work faster than U100 Iletin II Lente. (We knew, so started U40 conservatively with Lucky, who never had a hypo with any insulin.) Even though they are same type & same species, U40 would begin working faster. Conversely, a person who used Iletin II NPH and now switched to any of the GE NPH insulins would find it worked faster because it is a perfect amino acid match, and also because of this, that it would not last as long as the pork NPH did. If you are someone who's ordering 100% beef from BCP, if you are using U40 or U50 strength, it will start faster than BCP's U100 PZI. So, in knowing a bit about all of this, you might be able to find a better "fit"--especially in the case of BCP users--by changing only the strength of the insulin. Let me go over some TAPS and so forth in order to try to get something like this in a semi-sensible way on the wiki. Know I have some of it re: U40 and U100 on the Insulin page--with the head to head studies of R/neutral in both U40 & U100 against each other and then both against Humalog. Have a link there for the English translation of the German Healthcare Quality Bureau's study, which endorses U40 as a viable alternative to rapid-acting analogs. In a move to cut costs, they want to pay for no rapid-acting analogs for all newly dx'd Type 2's in Germany. Always a pleasure working with you, too! Hope Venita will also be able to put in some time here again! Kathy :Lots of news to digest there! Thanks for the comparisons and any more you add. By the way, I only mentioned N and Vetsulin for dogs, but maybe Hypurin or some others should be on that list too. Up to you. --Steve Thoughts About Comparisons We hope 17:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC) Steve, This just popped into my mind re: comparisons. We could expand on both cats' faster metabolism and the duration which can come from "non-destructive" resistance by showing some direct comparisons between TAPS in cats and humans with various types of bovine insulins. We can compare R, Lente and PZI; CP Pharma produces all 3 for human use, along with their Hypurin Vet R and PZI. CP is also the maker of all the Insuvet line of bovine insulins, so it would be basically comparing same for same at U100 strength. NOAH provides the data for the 3 types of Insuvet insulins; I can access the human Hypurins through the UK meds database. Comparing the two TAPS might be a good illustration of the metabolism differences and also of how some resistance because of amino acid differences can result in a longer-acting insulin. The comparisons would also be a potential benefit to dogs, because it would help provide some sort of model for GE insulin vs pork, even though the GE/pork match is only 1 amino acid difference in humans and dogs. A CDMB dog began with Insuvet lente, which was too slow, switched to Caninsulin which was too fast and settled very well on Insulatard (GE NPH). Having some non-destructive resistance but not as much as beef and going from U40 to U100 provided the needed duration. Offhand, I think this would be the only place to find something like this. Veterinary sites give us pet TAPS while human sites provide human TAPS. Combining data from both should make for a good illustration of metabolism differences and duration differences. Kathy :Cool idea. (Typical Action Profile?) just guessing at that acronym. -steve We hope 18:10, 12 June 2006 (UTC) Close--it's Time Activity or Action Profile. Now the headache is where best to place it on wiki. Duration page looks like it to me--what about you? Will get it up & running when I have the proper place for it. What's the wiki word re:tables--any templates or the like we are to use? We can do table comparisons of the insulins' actions in people and cats. Not sure if you'd want to duplicate it on Cats' faster metabolisms or just link to it. Kathy : Duration sounds perfect, we can reorg that page a bit to make a nice section or two for the comparisons. We can easily put tables on the wiki, even without templates. : But with the class "wikitable" you can make them neater. Compare the following with its original in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language#Writing_system : :It's possible to copy the classes and templates over from wikipedia -- the guys on the "help" chat can help better than I can. Numeric Spam We hope 04:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC) Wikis are getting strange numeric spam--we were hit 5X. I've removed and/or reverted the pages. http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:String_of_numbers_type_vandalism I'm guessing it's a spam bot running a test before they start actually spamming. Since it's different numbers each time, there's no way I can block it from happening. Angela (talk) 07:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC) Didn't put a user block in on any--not sure what good it may do, since they seem to be using many IP numbers wiki-wide. Kathy Bots Greetings! Noticed your question in IRC after you had alreayd left. The pywikipedia bot works fine on Wikia with minimal setup... you can also ask me if you don't want to do this yourself and I'll set User:Botspillage to it. :-) Cheers, Mindspillage 21:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC) :OK, I'll go ahead and get started with that. :-) Mindspillage (spill yours?) 01:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC) ::I put the first few without a bot flag so people knew what was up, but I'm going to go ahead and give myself a bot flag to not flood recent changes -- let me know if anything got messed up and I'll go back and fix! Mindspillage (spill yours?) 01:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC) Re: Reference Style We hope 00:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC) And Sabina's right, because we do have many external links in the pages themselves. Funny how we "mindlessly" just do it and when a fresh set of eyes looks at it, we get that new perspective. I like the reference format a lot; at first it takes a little going slow because you're so used to doing pages the other way and this is slightly different. I try to start out by doing the "Reference" section first--it helps me to know I have somewhere for them to "go" :). When I have more of a break from packing, etc., I will start on the insulin comparisons we talked about and put them into the Duration page. I'll continue on changing the pages to reference style--can pick up a page or so when I have only a little time--and I also will be following Sabina's suggestion! Kathy Have NOT Yet Moved... We hope 00:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC) Like Robert Frost once said, there's promises to keep and miles to go before I "sleep". I have a LOT more material to bring online here--for both canine & feline cases. Am trying to go through Favorites folders and simply get the URLs online, then try to do something about getting all of it into reference format. Was going to be moving the end of this month, but need to push it back to August--a few things need to be taken care of there which surfaced only last week. Nothing major, but things that need to be done there first. We'll be only going 40 miles north, closer to John's other practice. Having gotten most of the packing done, I have some time on my hands and am putting it in here. So if I can get quite a bit of what needs to be entered AND changed to reference notations, if I need some "time out" while moving, that's less that will be piling up, wiki-wise. BTW--am going to be changing all Lente-type insulins to reflect what I just entered on the Caninsulin page, to clarify exactly what's in Lente, no matter what species the insulin is. Like the moon being made of green cheese, it seems there's a belief that everything but the kitchen sink goes into Lente. Will be getting those bovine TAPS for the comparison we talked about earlier--to illustrate how bovine is faster for cats but VERY slow for humans--because of the amino acid similarity (cats) and difference (people). Now that I was able to "wikify" my HTML table for the amino acids, it should be a lot easier for the next one(s). Hope that at least some of this will make it easier to see why some insulins last longer than others, depending on the species of the user and that of the insulin. Glad you are pleased with what's been going on here--keep watching these spaces, as my Favorites folders are still quite full of URLs.! Thanks!! Kathy Tag Popping Up We hope 03:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC) Steve, Any idea what's wrong that makes that tag come up when adding refs now? Tried expanding the titles of some refs and add some links to the Insulin & Fatty Liver Pages but when one gets into preview. the tag comes up after every ref. The last one successfully added without the tag appearing was on the Insulin page: 7 July 2006 (diff) (hist) . . Insulin; 01:38 . . We hope (Talk | contribs | block) (→Strength - adding ref re: U40 faster onset than U100) was going to expand some of the Insulin page ref titles & add a link to Fatty Liver--did not save either of them when I saw all the tags in preview. If saved, they would all appear like Patriot's Case page: 6 July 2006 (diff) (hist) . . N Case Talk:Patriot; 23:43 . . We hope (Talk | contribs | block) (Unwanted tags here but nowhere else) Am using the tag to begin the square-bracketed URL and the tag after it as an end to the ref-- has not been brought into it except by wiki. Checked out the Current Issues/Known bugs on Cite here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cite/Cite.php but see no mention of unwanted/unneeded tags popping up after properly places & tags. This only started appearing today toward the end of changing the entire wiki to reference notation. The only saved example we have of the added tags is Patriot's case--didn't save the other pages where they were going to be added too. Any ideas as to what the fix for this is? Kathy :I checked, Kathy, and the tech team is doing a bunch of adjustments to the system to help find bugs in the upgrade. It should solve itself shortly, so don't sweat it. If it's still there in 2 days, we can complain again. Tags We hope 22:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC) Reported it to tech because it extended to all refs. http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Technical_support#Tags_added_to_References Not a big deal as long as someone's working on it! Kathy EMEA Copyright Permission We hope 13:56, 23 August 2006 (UTC) Hi Steve, As you see, we have copyright permission from EMEA with regard to their information on Monotard & Ultratard insulins. The license is in doc format which Wikia doesn't support. What format change would be appropriate here so the license can be uploaded? Thanks! Kathy Answer: PDF. Here it is: Image:Petdiabetes_Wikia_copyright_permission.pdf